Gish Gallop is described as an “overwhelming an interlocutor with as many arguments as possible, without regard for accuracy or strength of the arguments. This is especially disingenuous when the interlocutor is not allowed to interrupt and address the arguments, as in formal debate or in writing. To the spectator unfamiliar with this strategy, the interlocutor’s inability to accurately respond to all the claims in the given time is fallaciously seen as a “win” for the Gish Galloper or appears to lend credibility to the arguments made when in fact it does not.” Shout to my friend Quannah for sending me that. Quannah said I “actually put that into a visual form here, which really hits.”
Donald Trump Gish Galloped his fat orange ass all over the debate stage last Thursday while Joe Biden was trying to find his train of thought.
During the first presidential debate of 2024, and possibly the last, Donald Trump spent all of his allotted time lying. Fact-checkers counted over 30 lies told by the Orange Man. Donald Trump lied his tiny orange balls off. But the thing is, he lied with energy and aggression. Maybe he should take a drug test.
Yes, President Joe Biden was mostly factual, his energy was not present. And to those who say he rebounded in the middle of the debate and perked up, it wasn’t enough and it was still a mess. At one point in the debate, Biden supported one of Trump’s lies, that he gave the largest tax cut in American history (he did not).
Trump won the debate on optics which is about the only thing that matters in a debate. But Trump didn’t win because he’s a great debater. Trump didn’t win the debate as much as Biden lost it. Biden beat himself. Trump really only scored one point in the debate and that was when he leaped on Biden after he said, “We beat Medicare.” Biden fed Trump.
Since my first debate cartoon, Democrats have been screaming at me. Some have politicked me as though I don’t know the issues and haven’t been covering Trump since 2015. A lot of people point out how horrible Trump is compared to Biden who’s been a great president. Yeah, I know this stuff. I have a book on how awful Trump is. I’m not a newb here.
The problem with all that is that we’re conditioned to Trump’s lies. While it’s a huge deal to me, a lot of people don’t care anymore. If half this nation can’t remember Trump’s handling of COVID, the economy crashing before he left office, or his little white nationalist insurrection, then reminding them now that Trump is a liar isn’t going to work. We can get America’s most trusted person, Tom Hanks, to point this out and most Independent voters will still say, “Eh.”
Trump does lie and the only way to tackle that is to confront him on each one to his face. President Biden had that opportunity Thursday night and wasted it.
People point out that President Obama lost his first debate with Mitt Romney, but this isn’t a good comparison. President Biden is NOT Barack Obama, Mitt Romney wasn’t supported by a cult, and President Obama wasn’t ever in any real danger of losing in 2012. America is a different landscape than it was in 2012. Half the nation now finds public displays of racism acceptable.
Democrats are pointing out that Biden rebounded during a rally Friday, and they’re right. Biden did sound like his old self during that rally in North Carolina…with a teleprompter.
Democrats who don’t want to give up on President Biden say don’t lose patience, there’s a second debate for Biden to rebound. Yeah, in September. What happens if Biden bombs again in the fall? Fun facts, Biden will not be younger three months from now, which will be much closer to the election. September will be too late to replace him. It’s almost too late now.
And to the Democrats upset with me for not being loyal to Biden, up your nose with a rubber hose.
I am NOT loyal to Biden. I’m liberal, not a Democrat. You were upset that Trump demanded loyalty, demanded it from his cabinet, and demanded it from James Comey. Don’t get mad at me for not being loyal or a cultist about this. My loyalty is to this nation, not a party or to an individual politician. Having to choose, I’d rather save this nation than save face.
Can Joe Biden defeat Donald Trump? The Joe Biden we saw Thursday night can not. President Biden needs to put this nation before his ego.
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Watch me draw:
CLAYTOONZ 
Right on, Clay!!!!
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div>I can’t love this enough!
Nancy
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I could not love this more! Thank you, Clay!
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Stand up for what you believe. It may not make you friends, but it can earn you respect. If any readers do not respect that, they need to reconsider their positions, in my mind.
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Trump told more lies in his allotted two minutes each round than Biden could counter. Remember, Biden only had two minutes to speak each round. If, as you suggest, Biden tried to counter every Trump lie he’d never been able to honestly answer a question or put forward his own platform; which used to be the purpose of debates.
Biden exaggerated or lied nine times to Trump’s 30 but he spent more time actually answering questions than he did attacking Trump. Who do you believe would make better leader?
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But it can be done to win a debate against Trump. This is the first time Trump has ever won a debate against a Democrat. Biden beat him twice in 2020 and that’s not an opinion.
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Trump won? What are you talking about?
Trump Never answered a single question. Even when the moderators gave him a second chance to answer. He deflected answering by attacking Biden personally or by lying about his administration. He brazenly outrageously lied 30 times through the entire debate.
How do you call that winning?
If your idea of winning is a fast talking con man with a fake tan, your priorities For choosing a president are way off kilter.
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It’s not how you choose a president, but it won this debate. Or more so, Biden lost it.
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I looked up the etymology of gish gallop, which I thought might be yiddish. It’s not. It’s named for a creationist (Gish) who would rapidly babble his bullshit so fast that in formal debate settings, his falsehoods and poor reasoning could not be addressed. It’s become a common practice in competitive debates at the high school and college levels, where the galloper goes so fast that his points can’t be countered in the allotted time. It dates to 1994.
By the way, Ben Lerner wrote a novel a couple or three years ago in which the main character, from Wichita, is a competitive debater. He wins on substance, but fails to address all the “points”(sic) made by his opponent in a national competition and, so, loses a scholarship.
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Hooray!
Cheers from here,Carol Green305.812.2300Typos by iPhone
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While I fully agree with (nearly) everything you said – that Biden lost the debate, not on substance, but on superficial appearance, I need to ask who you think (hope) could beat the Dumpster fire that is Agent Orange? While I’d like to see Senator Warren, or Governor(s) Whitmer or Shapiro, Senator Klobuchar (not so much), or any other Dem candidate win I just don’t see it happening.
There are three houses for sale in the village I live in, in Spain (year round population seven.)
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I think there are several Democrats who would make great presidents but not so many who can beat Trump, especially late in the game. I think the nominee has to be a white male and I think that person is Gavin Newsom, or at least the one with the best shot.
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For now, I’ll just say agree to disagree. Sherrod Brown would have a better shot at pulling swing state voters, as would Gretchen Witmer. And I would love to see Elizabeth Warren in a debate with the Mango Moron. She is brilliant, succinct, has a vision for the country, and is a true progressive. And she won’t back down.
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While Gavin Newsome is popular in California, my impression (from overseas) is that he is not well-liked in much of the country. His personal behavior during the height of the pandemic would be used against him and one can only imagine what his ex-wife, now DJT Jr’s girlfriend, might say. Further, away from CA his policies on the unhoused, his regulatory moves (thanks Bill Maher) and his too slick appearance will make him vulnerable in swing states. Although I’m generally impressed when I hear him speak, I still think a ticket led by a left-moderate from the mid-west would have a better chance, especially if that person were to have a Black or Latin running mate (Cory Booker or Castro.) Booker, in particular, would counter any pull from SC’s junior senatorial Trump sycophant.
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Personally speaking, I would rather have an elder statesman as a president thann a totalitarian dictator.
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It’s not so much that Biden is an elder statesman; it’s that he’s an elderly one. Still preferable to the felon running against him, but the difference is significant.
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